There is a subtle but deeply transformative power to being fully seen and experienced by another person. We don’t allow it to happen very often.
A year or more ago, a friend—we’ll call him Steve, though his name isn’t Steve and he’d probably hate that pseudonym—pitched to me the idea of interviewing him for the blog about his experience as a client. I was pretty immediately reluctant, and told him as much. It’s a nice idea, but I didn’t want to talk about experiences there, since they vary so much from person to person. I don’t want someone’s expectation of our time together to be built upon a chemistry or circumstance we can’t possibly achieve.
“No no,” Steve assured me. “I don’t mean talking about what takes place between consenting adults and blah blah blah. I want to talk about what changed for me after our first meeting and in the times since then.”
This was more intriguing, but still not really what I wanted for the blog. I told Steve I would think about it, and maybe he could start telling me about what he was imagining.
Over the next year, we would meet and talk, and I would make notes. We would email when I had followup questions. And this is the conversation that ultimately flowed out of all that back and forth. It’s been edited for clarity and privacy, but still bares Steve’s approval and blessing.
“I knew there were people out there experiencing their bodies, showing them off, playing with them, fucking. But I didn’t know how to make that for me. It wasn’t for me.”
Tyler: So this was your idea, and I’ll do my best to keep us on track. But why don’t you explain what set this all off and why you wanted to talk about it.
Steve: Sure. So I’m in my mid 50s and divorced. I met you a few years ago when you were visiting, I think, New York? I think you had already left at that time, but were still there sometimes. I told you everything about me immediately because I had never done anything like this before and I didn’t know what, you know. What you did in this situation. Divorced, straight, professional. I had put on 20 pounds or so since I last felt comfortable being with somebody.
Tyler: What was that like? Making plans to be with somebody but simultaneously not feeling like you were comfortable?
Steve: (Laughs) It was scary. I think my main thought was “I’m not attractive,” right? That nobody was going to find me attractive. It was kind of a safety thing, a self defense. If I already know I’m not attractive, then it’s easy when you don’t get, when you don’t find what you’re looking for. The rejection is easier. I thought.
One thing I liked about you was how much you talked in your writing about being naked. And it wasn’t about being naughty or breaking the rules or something. But this like overall comfort with being naked all over the place.
I grew up Catholic and we used to joke that even my wife hadn’t ever seen me completely naked. I didn’t get naked alone. I had no nude life—I changed clothes under a towel at the pool or wherever. It just wasn’t a part of my life.
Tyler: A whole area of your body then was sort of excused from the conversation…
Steve: Yeah.
Tyler: A whole part of your body just wasn’t part of your life. That’s a wild thing to realize. And of course, you think, “sure, but he pisses and washes himself and he’s had sex before. It’s not like he has amnesia. He knows about those parts” Can we call it dissonance? What is the significance of this separation between you, Steve the guy, and your physical body?
Steve: I think I grew up not understanding my body. Nobody around me taught me about my body except for coaches and a doctor a couple times a year. My parents didn’t know about their own bodies I don’t think. So what would they tell me? I learned about sex from friends and was a virgin until I was in my 20s. It was like… I knew there were people out there experiencing their bodies, showing them off, playing with them, fucking. But I didn’t know how to make that for me. It wasn’t for me.
And I was always being told everything was bad. Everything was sinful. Dirty. Even going to the toilet or washing yourself was sinful to some degree. So you learned to part your thinking about your dick and balls to ensure you don’t accidentally enjoy any of it. That’s separate from who YOU are. That’s how you exert control over yourself. It’s not really you. If that makes any sense.
Tyler: Because you, the real you, was trying not to sin. Trying not to feel pleasure or walk any kind of line.
Steve: Yeah. And so it just went on that way. I would shower, but the parts where I washed myself were very short. I almost never spent any time on the backside (laughs). I remember you wrote something about how to wash your butthole and I was like “nobody does that. That’s ridiculous. Why would you want to touch it?”
When we were married, my wife and I didn’t have sex very often. She didn’t seem to like it and it didn’t feel good to keep being turned down. So I would masturbate privately. But I tried not to do it very much and told myself it was just for “stress,” or to help me calm down. I kind of learned how to do it so I didn’t think it was pleasure? If that makes any sense.
Tyler: So you made it to your 50s without anybody seeing you naked. Ever? Are we talking about nobody even by accident or maybe at the doctor, or something like that?
Steve: It wasn’t something I was keeping score on, you know? I just thought everybody did this and I needed to keep my clothes on. I wasn’t planning on it or trying to see how long I could go. I know the doctor saw me with my pants down. But never completely without any clothes on. When would that even happen? We didn’t shower together. I would pull my pants down or MAYBE take them off but leave my underwear on? And then quickly get dressed again as soon as he was done.
So when you and I met that first time, I kind of expected it would be a similar thing. It hadn’t really entered my mind that we might be naked. I know that’s crazy.
Tyler: Do you remember what it felt like? When I asked you to get undressed?
Steve: I went in the other room. Yeah.
Tyler: Yeah. You did. After a few minutes I came looking for you. You still had your underwear on. You said—as though you were just figuring it out yourself—”nobody sees me naked. Nobody has seen me naked.”
And I thought about that and asked you if you wanted to be seen.
Steve: I broke down. I think I had just been so pumped up on nerves or adrenaline or something up to that point and I just didn’t know suddenly what I was doing or who you were even. And I felt really vulnerable and stupid standing in my underwear next to you. You got very quiet and I was sure this was the weirdest thing you had ever seen.
Tyler: Do you remember what I said?
Steve: You told me you’d like to see me. And I hugged you. I didn’t even really understand why, or what was going on. I was overwhelmed.
Everything after that felt different. I don’t know how. Like I was on drugs or something. I didn’t feel afraid or sad, just really at peace and like I would do whatever you said. You asked me to take off the underwear and I did. And you looked at me for a long time. You looked me in the face for a long time. I remember you looking at my body too, but I still wasn’t in parts of my body at this point. They could have been somebody else’s parts.
But you kept looking. Sometimes you moved me around or adjusted the way I was standing. It felt like it went on for a long time. Like I was being inspected. I was thinking how much I wanted to be approved. “I hope he says it’s ok.” That kind of thing.
You told me you could see me. And I didn’t know what you meant. And you put your hands on my belly and you looked at my face and said “I can see you. How does that feel?” And I couldn’t say anything.
“It felt exciting to do things without clothes on, even alone in my house.”
Tyler: What happened after you left?
Steve: After I left, I felt relieved that it was over. Like I had been holding my breath the whole time if that makes sense. But also proud that I had done it. That I’d met you and gone through with our plans. And like I had this secret now.
I didn’t realize it in the moment, but that secret part would be the thing that kept growing. I didn’t have anybody to talk about this with, but I couldn’t stop replaying it in my head and trying to figure out what it meant. Why I had gone. What you really thought about me afterward. All of it.
For the next few days I would take my clothes off as though I was getting ready to shower, but then I would sit in a towel and do other things. Like I had suddenly remembered I needed to check my email or suddenly needed to clean up the newspaper from the table. It felt exciting to do things without clothes on, even alone in my house.
Eventually I would get in the shower and dry off and put clothes on and go about my day. But these times before the showers would stretch longer and longer. Once at night I turned off the lights and got in bed naked to go to sleep. I made it about half an hour before I put boxer shorts back on and then finally went to sleep. I think I told you about my mother beating my brother when we were kids. She had found him in bed naked, I don’t even remember why he was doing it, and just started screaming about how he was sinning and he wasn’t old enough to sin like that.
Tyler: What did that mean to you? To be committing sin just by being? Just by existing in a state of undress?
Steve: Well at the time it made perfect sense. That’s when you were most sinful, when you were naked. He shouldn’t have been doing that.
Tyler: What does it mean today?
Steve: I don’t know.
That’s what I was doing for a long time. I was protecting myself from being hurt, or being threatened. By staying covered up at all times, nobody had the chance, right?
Tyler: When did you start to feel differently?
Steve: About being naked? Or all of it? I mean, I still don’t get excited about taking my clothes off (laughs). I’m still afraid of being rejected.
But yeah. The more I thought about our time together, the more I started thinking about what had happened—what it meant. Someone had looked at me, at my whole body. And touched me. Touched my whole body. And nothing happened. Nothing bad happened afterward. I didn’t change or feel bad about myself and you didn’t ask me to leave and nobody else found out about it. So, what did it mean?
I thought about the part where you had seen me, and had looked at me. And it started to come together that somehow by being looked at, and then having nothing bad happen, that I could do it again. I could be looked at again. I could be seen again. And probably nothing bad would happen, if that makes sense.
There was a lot of confusing feelings; I thought I was in love with you, or that you were an angel, or I didn’t know. All I knew was when you looked at me, when you approved of me, I had some kind of release. I had some kind of… I don’t know.
Tyler: I think “permission” is a good word in this scenario. Once you know what a situation is, and what you can expect, you suddenly have this “permission” to be and exist, to navigate that situation with some authority or safety.
Steve: Yeah I think that’s a good word. You didn’t give me any magic words or anything, or grant me “permission” (laughs) but yeah. I felt released.
Tyler: There is a power that comes with being seen and knowing that you don’t have anywhere to hide anything. When somebody views your whole body, even the parts we are told to keep private, or the parts we are conditioned to be deeply ashamed of, it changes the relationship with that person. It can change how we view ourselves.
For men, especially, we are socially conditioned to be ashamed of our anuses, and simultaneously fearful of anyone trying to see them. That could be the first step toward being penetrated. That might mean we aren’t really men, that we’re women and don’t have the power or control in this world that we thought we did.
Showing this deeply vulnerable area to someone is to make yourself known in a profound way. That can sound like a silly thing to say when OnlyFans exists and you can see basically unlimited buttholes 24/7 online today.
But for most men, the idea that someone—particularly another man—could view their anus as simply and easily as viewing their hands or arms—that’s scary shit. We’re conditioned to equate nudity with sex, and vulnerability with penetration or even violence. Keeping ourselves covered is keeping ourselves safe. Keeping suspicious of why somebody would want to see ALL of us, that’s a protective measure. Even when we don’t consciously think about it that way.
That’s the root of every “don’t drop the soap” joke or gay panic legal defense.
Steve: Yes. That’s what I was doing for a long time. I was protecting myself from being hurt, or being threatened. By staying covered up at all times, nobody had the chance, right?
Of course there was nobody in my house when I was doing the towel thing, but it still felt dangerous, because the sensation of being nearly exposed felt dangerous.
When you looked at me, I was exposed. I didn’t know what was happening, and you didn’t tell me anything like that. You definitely didn’t threaten to “penetrate” me (laughing). But on some level I knew that was a worry if that makes sense? I felt that fear. Like it wasn’t masculine or manly.
“I don’t think I realized that I wasn’t known, if that makes sense. If you had asked me years ago if anybody “knew me” I’d say “of course. Of course they do.”
Tyler: We’ve met many times over the years. Is it always the same for you?
Steve: No. Not at all. The one thing I’ve gotten comfortable with is asking to be looked at. You know? It went from this thing I didn’t know was meaningful—I didn’t have the experience or vocabulary to know what was missing for me—to being this thing I found exciting to request.
We’ve spent time together just talking, with you letting me show you parts of me and talking about those parts. It feels odd to talk about showing your hole to someone, especially after we already talked about the fear men have about being violated. But that was something I came back to again and again. It felt like the ultimate thing, you know? As close as you get to someone seeing inside of you. I couldn’t imagine anyone else being allowed do that. But with you it was so freeing.
Tyler: You used a word at one point—
Steve: Known.
Tyler. Yes. You said at one point that you felt “known.” I think that’s maybe the heart of all of this. I also think it might be what people are seeking, whether they are aware of it on any level at all, or not. When I scroll through Bluesky or even when I’m at the bathhouse, it’s a common thought process. In the back of my mind. Trying to observe and see if I could understand what people are looking for. Just attention? Validation? I think the brickwork under those avenues is being known. Being seen and understood by someone (or many someones).
Steve: I don’t think I realized that I wasn’t known, if that makes sense. If you had asked me years ago if anybody “knew me” I’d say “of course. Of course they do.”
But until I let go and let myself be seen, where there weren’t any more secrets or secret parts, I don’t think I was. I didn’t know anyone could see me. Or that I would allow anyone to see all of me.
And now I’m known. (laughs)
What does being seen naked feel like or mean to you? Your comments are often fuel for lots of future ideas and posts and I’m genuinely curious to know if you relate to what Steve is saying here or if you experience has been completely different.
-t
Bartholome Hudson
Every time I visit your website, I’m greeted with thought-provoking content and impeccable writing. You truly have a gift for articulating complex ideas in a clear and engaging manner.
Tyler Dårlig Ulv
Well thanks, Bartholome. I don’t think you’re a real person, but I like your nice words <3
-t
Carter Schmeler
Thanks I have just been looking for information about this subject for a long time and yours is the best Ive discovered till now However what in regards to the bottom line Are you certain in regards to the supply